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Ultimate Reality
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What Josephus Really Wrote about the 70 Years
by Ultimate Reality insee next post.... moderator, please delete this one..
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What Josephus Really Wrote about the 70 Years
by Ultimate Reality inthere have been some partial quotations of josephus on this board recently in relation to how he explained the '70 years'.. .
in the interests of scholastic honesty and so that his words are not taken out of context, here are some relevant passages with their context.
you might ask yourself, do the 70 years (as spoken by the prophet jeremiah) begin with the destruction of the temple or before the destruction of the temple?
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Ultimate Reality
There have been some partial quotations of Josephus on this board recently in relation to how he explained the '70 Years'.
In the interests of scholastic honesty and so that his words are not taken out of context, here are some relevant passages with their context. You might ask yourself, do the 70 Years (as spoken by the Prophet Jeremiah) begin with the destruction of the temple or before the destruction of the temple? Was the temple destroyed during a 70 year period or was it desolated at the beginning the 70 year period described by Jeremiah?
Whatever Josephus says, he is not the final authority. However, the Society and others have a habit of using certain quotes from him out of context.
Josephus Antiquities 10.7.3:
3. Now when Zedekiah had preserved the league of mutual assistance he had made with the Babylonians for eight years, he brake it, and revolted to the Egyptians, in hopes, by their assistance, of overcoming the Babylonians. When the king of Babylon knew this, he made war against him: he laid his country waste, and took his fortified towns, and came to the city Jerusalem itself to besiege it. But when the king of Egypt heard what circumstances Zedekiah his ally was in, he took a great army with him, and came into Judea, as if he would raise the siege; upon which the king of Babylon departed from Jerusalem, and met the Egyptians, and joined battle with them, and beat them; and when he had put them to flight, he pursued them, and drove them out of all Syria. Now as soon as the king of Babylon was departed from Jerusalem, the false prophets deceived Zedekiah, and said that the king of Babylon would not any more make war against him or his people, nor remove them out of their own country into Babylon; and that those then in captivity would return, with all those vessels of the temple of which the king of Babylon had despoiled that temple. But Jeremiah came among them, and prophesied what contradicted those predictions, and what proved to be true, that they did ill, and deluded the king; that the Egyptians would be of no advantage to them, but that the king of Babylon would renew the war against Jerusalem, and besiege it again, and would destroy the people by famine, and carry away those that remained into captivity, and would take away what they had as spoils, and would carry off those riches that were in the temple; nay, that, besides this, he would burn it, and utterly overthrow the city, and that they should serve him and his posterity seventy years; that then the Persians and the Medes should put an end to their servitude, and overthrow the Babylonians; "and that we shall be dismissed, and return to this land, and rebuild the temple, and restore Jerusalem." When Jeremiah said this, the greater part believed him; but the rulers, and those that were wicked, despised him, as one disordered in his senses. Now he had resolved to go elsewhere, to his own country, which was called Anathoth, and was twenty furlongs distant from Jerusalem; and as he was going, one of the rulers met him, and seized upon him, and accused him falsely, as though he were going as a deserter to the Babylonians; but Jeremiah said that he accused him falsely, and added, that he was only going to his own country; but the other would not believe him, but seized upon him, and led him away to the rulers, and laid an accusation against him, under whom he endured all sorts of torments and tortures, and was reserved to be punished; and this was the condition he was in for some time, while he suffered what I have already described unjustly.
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Does anyone have PDFs for the Watchtowers of January and February 2010?
by dgp inanybody has them?.
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Ultimate Reality
fokyc, Thank you!
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our KH (worth half a million ££) is to be sold
by quietlyleaving ina local congregation is the owner.
(this hall occupies an area of 1000sq ft).
other khs to be sold too.... i don't know how many.
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Ultimate Reality
In the U.S., our congregation had a "review" done on the articles of incorporation. This was initiated by the Legal Department through the C.O. As a result the dissolution clause was changed (through a rubber stamp vote of the congregation) so that upon dissolution the proceeds will go to the Society.
The Society has been doing this everywhere and as a result they now (or soon will) effectively control all KH assets. If the elders resist, guess what, they will be removed and replaced by more compliant men. And, no one in the congregation has the will to stand up to this. Donated money for construction and remodels, volunteer labor, loans with interest from the Society, donations to maintain the property and in the end, the asset ends up in the hands of the Society.
I think that is why they eliminated the Book Study and shortened the Public Talk by 15 minutes. Now you can have 1 Hall that easily handles 4 congregations.
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Recent Annual Figures, 2009
by Joker10 inpeak publishersincreasepercent.
memorial attendanceincreasepercent.
australia.
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Ultimate Reality
bohm:
Here's the post on the numbers:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/184119/1/48-165-New-Publishers-in-ONE-MONTH
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Recent Annual Figures, 2009
by Joker10 inpeak publishersincreasepercent.
memorial attendanceincreasepercent.
australia.
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Ultimate Reality
The U.S. numbers are cooked. According to the KM over 40,000 new publishers appeared in August.
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the Watchtower, December 15, 2009 (PDF)
by possible-san inwell, the watchtower, december 15, 2009 (pdf) is downloadable now.. although i had stopped notifying of those pdf files here, am i good to notify you?.
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http://bb2.atbb.jp/possible/.
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Ultimate Reality
Yes, can you please post links on this site to the Watchtower PDF's? It is a most valuable contribution. Thank you.
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48,165 New Publishers in ONE MONTH!!!
by Ultimate Reality inthe december 2009 okm (courtesy of iloowy) provides a new field service highlight: in august 2009 the u.s. reported publishers of 1,154,275; a new peak and an increase of 48,165 from the july 2009 report of 1,106,110.. .
fyi: 2008 peak publishers for the u.s. were 1,105,798. therefore, an increase of only 312 publishers from 2008 to july 2009. where did these 48,165 come from in one month?.
how are they manipulating these numbers?.
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Ultimate Reality
So, the bulk of these are inactive ones turning in a report? But only 312 actual new publishers since 1 year previous (per the November KM)? This really does mean they are in a state of decay. The number dropping off as publishers and getting DF'd must be about to (or is) exceed the number of new publishers coming in. When we see the baptism statistics for 2009 we'll know more.
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48,165 New Publishers in ONE MONTH!!!
by Ultimate Reality inthe december 2009 okm (courtesy of iloowy) provides a new field service highlight: in august 2009 the u.s. reported publishers of 1,154,275; a new peak and an increase of 48,165 from the july 2009 report of 1,106,110.. .
fyi: 2008 peak publishers for the u.s. were 1,105,798. therefore, an increase of only 312 publishers from 2008 to july 2009. where did these 48,165 come from in one month?.
how are they manipulating these numbers?.
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Ultimate Reality
The December 2009 OKM (courtesy of Iloowy) provides a new Field Service Highlight: In August 2009 the U.S. reported publishers of 1,154,275; a new peak and an increase of 48,165 from the July 2009 report of 1,106,110.
FYI: 2008 Peak publishers for the U.S. were 1,105,798. Therefore, an increase of only 312 publishers from 2008 to July 2009. Where did these 48,165 come from in one month?
How are they manipulating these numbers?
Here is the quote from the Kingdom Ministry:
"The August 2009 report marked an important new milestone in theocratic progress for the United States branch. There were new peaks in Kingdom publishers in all three territories assigned to our branch. In the United States, the total of 1,154,275 publishers reporting is an increase of 48,165 over the previous peak of 1,106,110 set in July 2009. Truly, Jehovah 'is speeding up the work in its own time.' - Isaiah 60:22"
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Two simple (stupid) questions about 607..
by bohm inim researching the societys position on 607, and so far i got two questions i havent been able to find the answer to.
it is about the following scripture:.
in the third year of the kingship of je?hoia?kim the king of judah, neb?u?chad?nezzar the king of babylon came to jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it.
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Ultimate Reality
I agree. The argument that Daniel and the other Hebrews were totally unknown to the King during their 3 year education does not match with the fact that court official was in fear of the King if he found out that the 3 Hebrews were not eating of the King's delicacies. The King must have 'checked up' on the boys during their education and during year 2 Daniel gave the interpretation.
If we really do follow the scriptures at their word, their was a deportation in 605 B.C.E. (using 'secular' chronology) under Nebuchadrezzar's first year as King and that is when Daniel was brought to Babylon. Otherwise, Daniel would be saying things he did not mean. If this 'second year' was after the destruction of the temple why didn't Daniel say so or why did he not say it was in the King's 20th year?
Here is an interesting chart (not that I endorse the whole site):
http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/bible/Timelines/690-570%20BC.htm